Let’s Read a Book…..or 2 Week 5 Chapters 24-33

Screen Shot 2015-06-18 at 10.28.34 PMWell, well, weeeeeel……since all my hobbies take two hands, it’s difficult to spend a lot of time on one without neglecting another.  Here it is, Friday and I’m just now getting the blog out, so apologies to the Type A personalities, I will always get the post done, though!!

NOTICE–The Chapters aren’t going to match the discussions this week.  Our assignment was to read 24-33.  TONS of material to cover, though.  This blog will only be over Chapters 24, 25 and part of 26.  So much good stuff, aye??  I want to thank D. Elizabeth for her guest research on the dogs of Lallybroch.  She is our dog expert.  If you haven’t followed her yet, she’s at @dea4dogs.  She really is a dog expert.  Really.

As we go through the books, if you EVER have a back logged question that didn’t get answered or that you have thought of, please send to me @woodzey1 on TW or reply here.  I do need to learn a new trick, like how to access comments on this blog.  EEK!!! I will alert our moderator, Mrs. Fitz ( @b304SMN  ) and she will add it to the next discussion.  We will call it “Rewind”.  Nothing needs to be lost if there is a discussion.


@dea4dogs, D. would love to hear your point of view on the following:  “I was having trouble with the scale of things.  A man killed with a musket was just as dead as one killed with a mortar…….How many men to make a war?…….Hanovers and Stuarts? To me, these were still no more than names on a chart on the schoolroom wall.  What were they, compared with an unthinkable evil like Hitler’s Reich?……”  Excerpt From: Gabaldon, Diana. “Outlander.” Bantam Dell, 2004-10-26. iBooks.  This material may be protected by copyright.

Then throw in BJR.  Hitler vs Black Jack vs Kings wanting their own way…….

Chapters 24, 25, 26

Jamie is 15 stone.  That means absolutely nothing to me.  I found a chart.  So for us non-metric type, here’s the chart  http://www.asknumbers.com/stone-to-pound.aspx   I would probably like to think about weighing in the single or double digits again, but oh, well.  <<sigh>>

Okay, the amount of alcohol that flows at these dinners…..There’s been studies on the alcoholism of Anerica’s founding fathers.  What a hoot.  They have even found intact bottles in ship wrecks, analyzed contents, found LIVING yeast and recreated the beer using that very yeast.  WOW!

And here are some pictures of what they used to drink it out of.

Holding your whisky – and not by the glass…..
Stone beer bottles http://www.bottlebooks.com/beertime/understanding%20beer%20bottles.htm
Picture of stoneware bottles https://www.google.com/search?q=understanding+antique+beer+bottles&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#imgrc=His-fUcyuvbckM%3A

Wanton sex is not a modern concept, regardless what our children think, and the church started wanting to stifle the siring of bastard children.  I think it made following the next in line to the throne very confusing.

Interesting read on arranged marriages, and ‘burning’ with lust. http://curioustendency.blogspot.com/2012/08/arranged-marriages-and-divorce-laws.html?m=1

For our horse lovers out there, I’ll apologize now for my ignorance.  I really didn’t know how many colors and how much genetic material breeders need to know about colors of horses.  For you novices, did you know a ‘black’ horse that gets brown tinges is NOT considered a black horse?  Hmmmmm.  Here is a lovely chart of horses, their colors and pictures to look at.  Donas was not a black horse.  He was a sorrel in the book.  Cobhar was a bay and Thistle wasn’t described with a color at all, just a bristly mane.


Now, about Laoghaire’s ill wish.  I seem to remember a fad in the 70’s, 1970’s, where you could send dead flowers to a hated ex-lover, boss, spouse, friend, just to name a few that could be ex’s.  I just googled dead bouquets and it’s still there!! WOW!! Modern ill wishes!!

You can still send ill wishes!! Just visit the following sites!!

As a musician, I am always so glad that people don’t forget the auld songs. DG is very creative and I’m sure she’s written a few verses in the style of the 18th century, but this is an actual song.  Love it!!

‘Up Among the Heather’ http://youtu.be/_ex9gh8yv2I

History of The Argyle Sock. http://triptrivia.blogspot.com/2009/07/history-of-argyle-socks.html?m=1 Don’t think I’ll be knitting a pair anytime soon. Not that I don’t appreciate the plaid, but I can’t color change. Yet…I can’t color change, yet!!

Most of you know that I avoid cursing, naked pictures of Sam and blatant sexual innuendos, but I couldn’t resist this search.  To answer Geilie’s embarrassing questions about the young fox…http://listverse.com/2012/12/30/top-10-methods-mistakenly-used-to-estimate-penis-size/    My nurse friends and @beulahcrusoe should be very proud!! But know this, I didn’t have to type the medical word for wee willie’s winkie! Or Jamie’s for that matter.

I have always heard about the following cultures.  If you are a Mary Stewart, Crystal Cave, fan, a lot of these ‘tribes’ were mentioned as Arthur and Merlin roamed Britain, but by Outlader’s time, they are still an ancient tale.

The Picts http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-truth-about-the-picts-886098.html

The Normans

The Gauls http://housebarra.com/EP/ep04/11difference.html

The Norse https://norsespirit.wordpress.com/2012/11/18/who-are-the-norse-people-historyculture-post/

The next two sites have to do with the foaling that Old Alec and Jamie voluntold Claire for.  The video is pretty cool, but pretty graphic.  The second link is more technical, but it made Losgann’s foal a REAL miracle.  Even in modern times, breech foals don’t make it.

Foaling: not for the feint of heart. http://youtu.be/rKBA6R1_YOU

Description of what Claire went through when trying to help turn Losgann’s foal http://m.wikihow.com/Deliver-a-Foal

I found this next link to be an excellent explanation of the theory of changelings in the middle ages. Then there was no reason why these beliefs wouldn’t carry over into the backward, isolated world of the poorest of poor.

Changelings: http://www.windsorscottish.com/ed-folk-land.php

Don’t be offended, but my husband is a hunter. I cook what he brings home.  If he is lucky enough to get a trophy of what ever it is we had for dinner, be it fish, fowl or hoof, we have mementos of them around the house.  He studies the terrain, waits for hours without results sometimes and loves the beauty of the creatures that feed us.  Some of these pictures are of harvested stags, but some are alive and in their wild setting.  They are beautiful, absolutely beautiful! Scottish Red Stag https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+of+a+scottish+red+stag&client=safari&hl=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&fir=v49XYWiZmp4b6M%253A%252CN5bvU-dds-yNdM%252C_%253BL0KJH7tQasp2xM%253A%252CWBC9zn9xNFCv_M%252C_%253Bs4mkP-6pvzpHJM%253A%252CN74V87TJTKDbJM%252C_%253BZ9cWD9Mm75pMZM%253A%252CN5bvU-dds-yNdM%252C_%253B520GZX111XdICM%253A%252CUYVBfYhvNtavQM%252C_%253BIKGCxdMV9uyGnM%253A%252ChDoSStR_AbVCuM%252C_&usg=__UkewTP6AlGFKiLNWFil2AZGKxSA%3D&sa=X&ei=45qVVfWCIIPAsAXB1IKICw&ved=0CDAQ7Ak

Jet is a stone. It has tons of links to using it as a crystal with magical powers.  I don’t think Colum would approve of that use of it, let alone Father Bain, so when I found this link to Queen Victoria’s use of it and a town whose lively hood is wrapped around the jewelry aspect of the stone, I thought it would be more interesting!!

Jet, specifically, Whitby Jet Queen Victoria wore it as mourning jewelry. http://whamond.com/pages/what-is-whitby-jet

Something Wicked This Way Comes:  If you have read anything about witch trials, you know how absurd the proof of not being a witch was.  It still ended up with the person being dead, but at least not a witch.  So when Claire battles back at the loch, she is speaking the truth about a dead un-witch.

‘Famous’ Witch trials of England and Scotland. http://m.historyextra.com/feature/witches-dock-10-britain%E2%80%99s-most-infamous-witch-trials

Witch tests: http://www.history.com/news/history-lists/7-bizarre-witch-trial-tests

This next part looks long, but it does deal with the concern Claire has for Geilie and her punishment. The electronic link covers all KINDS of info on punishments, but it is all very interesting.

Claire worries about Geilie and the baby:
“Death Respited for Pregnancy
Women who claimed they were pregnant at the time they were sentenced to death could “plead their belly”. Such women (and there were many) were then examined by a jury of matrons (chosen from women present in the courtroom), and, if found to be “quick with child” (if movement could be detected, signalling the beginning of life), their punishment was respited until after the baby was born. In principle, the punishment could then be carried out, but in practice sympathy for the newborn child (or concern for the cost of caring for it) meant that the mother was often pardoned. The eventual outcome of such cases is not necessarily recorded in the Proceedings, but it is worth searching later sessions for the convict’s name. From 1848, reprieves granted to pregnant women were always permanent.
The verdicts of the juries of matrons were recorded in the punishment summaries. Just over half of the over 1100 women who made this plea were successful. Over the course of the eighteenth century the number of successful pleas declined, and they are found infrequently in the Proceedings after 1760. After 1800 there are few recorded cases of women even making this plea, and in those cases medical authorities were often summoned to advise the matrons. The plea last appears in the Proceedings in the trial of Emma Pleasance in 1880.”

Complete link on The Old Bailey https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/static/Punishment.jsp#respited-for-pregnancy

For those interested–The famous pirate-ess, Anne Bonnie from Black Sails fame, pleaded her belly when she went on trial for being a pirate.  She was a real person.

Puppies!! An actual Scottish sheep dog breed courtesy @dea4dogs  If you look at the header of the page, you can find pics of the actual dogs.

Then here is some more info on the terrier and the staghound.

Well, there are, as you know, any number of “terriers”. However, the main purpose of any terrier is as a hunter of rodents.Most farms kept terriers as a way to control mice, rats, etc. from eating hay and feed necessary to feed the farm stock  The Staghound. Well, this sounds like a deerhound, really.There is no such (and was no such in my research) “staghound” in Scotland at that time.What is described in the book is “a huge black & tan monster” with “a neck as thick as [Claire’s] waist” While DG is a wonderful writer in many regards, she knoweth not her dogs. Firstly, a stag hound (more commonly recognized as deerhound) more closely resembles a large greyhound (very large – like twice the size) with a shaggy coat. Hounds are built for agility and endurance A neck of the size she describes would be thick like a mastiff’s, not a hound’s. Furthermore, I was unable to discover any black & tan deerhound or staghound, then or now. Now, Bran could’ve been a cross between a Dane & a deerhound. But that still wouldn’t have been black & tan unless she’s talking abt brindle So, the description in the book of the physicality of the dog would argue against it actually being a deerhound or staghound 

AND we both found this reference and wondered if DG found the same one.  Screen Shot 2015-07-03 at 12.40.29 PM

And here are some glimpses into 18th century artificial limbs.    http://pirates.hegewisch.net/odd_pegleg.html


Now, if you have lasted this long, here are the study questions for this coming book club.

***When you 🚫 Claire heard Dougal and Colum arguing, did YOU think they were speaking about Geillis? Who did you think it was?

***Laoghaire’s deceit. Why did Claire fall for it??

***Geilie asks Claire, “Do you love him?……It’s his name ye call out in your sleep.” Then she says, “So it’s possible”. What do you think she meant by that??

***Geilie saves Claire……RUN

The Reveal: Jamie seems to really be the perfect man. He only seems angry one time. “I would have gone to the stake with you!” he said violently. “And to hell beyond, if I must. But may the Lord Jesus have mercy on my soul and on yours, tell me the truth!”

Excerpt From: Gabaldon, Diana. “Outlander.” Bantam Dell, 2004-10-26. iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.

***And then comes the hysterical truth. Put yourself in Jamie’s shoes and react. He does it in his head with a blank face, you can put your reaction in writing.

***Then comes the stones….Claire’s check list. We did this on our first discussion, but you now have a choice–stay or go–that you didn’t have before. 1945 vs 1743 What would be on your scales? Besides Jamie!!

Jamie’s comment on Arthur:
“He had money, a good position. And I doubt he beat her.”
***Would you have reacted differently than Claire?

Lallybroch! I know how exciting it is to get home even after a day, can you imagine the joy to see home, all lies and conflict aside for now, that Jamie felt at just seeing Lallybroch?
***If you want, tell us a personal story on coming home.

Oh, the misunderstandings that distance creates. Dougal’s lies are surfacing. Jamie’s guilt made him gullible.
***Is this a real possibility, that guilt over something can make you close your eyes to the truth?

Fav scene: “Quick as lightning, she stooped and her hand shot under his kilt like a striking snake.
Jamie let out a roar of sheer outrage and stood bolt upright with shock. He tried to turn, then froze as she apparently tightened her grip.
“There’s men as are sensible,” she said to me, with a wicked smile, “and beasts as are biddable. Others ye’ll do nothing with, unless ye have ’em by the ballocks. Now, ye can listen to me in a civil way,” she said to her brother, “or I can twist a bit. Hey?”

Excerpt From: Gabaldon, Diana. “Outlander.” Bantam Dell, 2004-10-26. iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.
Laughed out loud!! I was thinking about a couple of fights with my brother that I now wished he’d a had a kilt on!! Anyone else feel that way???

Golly gee willikers!! Didn’t know I could ‘talk’ this long.  If it’s too much, oh WELL!!! I do it for me and if you like it, too, then that’s okay!!


@woodzey1 as well as our moderator, @b304SMN Mrs. Fitz


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